How to Maximize Slow Time and Innovate in Craft Concrete

This episode of The Concrete Podcast features BG and Jon exploring the valuable opportunities presented by downtime between client projects. As small business owners, we often feel anxious during these lulls, but they actually provide a chance to delve into unexplored areas of our craft. They delve into strategies for generating innovative designs to make the most of these periods.

Additionally, they discuss the trending topic of ceramic coatings applied over sealers. The conversation wraps up with an examination of the top caulk gun and tools for efficient form building.

Here are the links for the ceramic coatings discussed in this episode:

 

TRANSCRIPT:

0:15

Good morning, Jon Schuler.

Good morning, Brandon.

What are you up to on this on this beautiful day?

What am I doing?

Yeah.

What are you up to today?

Doing a podcast with you, man.

Well, besides the podcast, what are you up to today?

The whole day.

Why is this so hard, Jon?

0:31

It's such a simple question.

What are you up to today?

Well, believe it or not, I'm going to be doing some sealing and I'm actually going to follow the steps of Phil Courtney where he was doing multiple deluded steps and etcetera.

0:46

So I was going to try and see again my results worked fantastic, but I'm always interested to see, you know, maybe following someone else's technique and what's done.

So that's kind of my focus today.

Gotcha.

Well, later in the podcast, we'll talk about some new trends and processes for sealer that people are talking a lot about and are excited.

1:10

I'm excited about it and having good results.

We'll get to that later in the podcast.

The beginning of the podcast, this was a discussion you had with somebody earlier this week.

You you're talking to somebody and they're telling you they've been pretty slow for the last few months, that they've talked to other people that have been slow.

1:27

And I've, you know, over this is my 21st year, it's a roller coaster.

It's either tons of work or no work, tons of work or no work.

And in the beginning it's scary.

In the beginning, it's really scary.

You freak out and you know, over the years you just kind of get a little bit more acclimated to the ups and downs, ups and downs, and you kind of realize that that is the normal.

1:47

There is no just solid work forever.

It's you got 20 projects.

You got no projects.

What I found and what we kind of want to talk about on on this podcast is making the most of the downtime.

Not just, yeah, not just finding out who the father is on Mori, but you, you know, you you always talk about, everybody always talks about, man, I don't want to be making countertops.

2:09

I'm sick of countertops.

I want to do something else.

This is your chance.

This moment is your chance to do the things you've always wanted to do.

Get into the market segment that you have had your eye on you, man.

Man, I wish I could make fire pits.

2:24

I wish I could sell, you know, whatever it is.

A sink a ball of.

Ping pong tables, cornhole boards, Yeah, I mean, there's so many products that in this, this moment.

And you got to believe that nothing lasts forever.

My grandpa, a long time ago.

2:40

I was, I was, I mean this was when I was 21 or 22 and I'd started my company.

Maybe I was a little bit older.

I think maybe I was like 2425 at this point because I'd had a really good year and I bought a Porsche and I'd just, I'd gone crazy.

2:56

I didn't have any kids.

I don't have a girlfriend, you know, it was just me.

And so, you know, when you're young and and you have a a good year, you just kind of go nuts.

And I remember I was talking to my grandpa and telling him, you know, like how good I'm doing and he said nothing lasts forever.

3:13

He's like the good times don't last, the bad times don't last.

Remember that?

And it it made me mad in the moment because I'm like, what dude, what I'm telling you like how great I'm doing.

And I'd rather him say it like, yeah, good job, you know, proud of you.

Instead he he just gave me a reminder.

Like nothing last, you know, the good times last.

3:29

Say it last.

For a moment, because this too shall pass.

Exactly.

And so when you're in these moments, which we we all have, these moments of of no projects, just realize that even though it feels like it's the end, it's not.

It's just a moment and there's another project on the horizon, and before you know it, you'll be swamped again and you'll be wishing you had a moment to do something you always wanted to do.

3:51

Yeah.

Well, I hear that a lot.

I mean, I hear that a lot.

All of us, all of us have, whether we want to admit it or not, we have ideas that are either sitting on the mental shelf or you know, drawn in a little book somewhere or whatever the case may be.

4:09

We all have them.

Maybe it's, you know, some vessel sinks may.

I mean, maybe it's a whatever.

And when times are busy and we're chucking through whatever we're chucking through and, you know, waiting on a, you know, client to pay a project or whatever the case may be, you know, we always sit here like the Hell's going, man, I always want to get these sinks off the ground and this and that.

4:35

They're really pretty.

They're so cool and boom, but you.

And then you hit a downtime, whatever that winter, whatever the case may be.

And what I always tell my kids is this, you know, this time's going to pass whether we're talking, you know, and here we're talking about concrete, like a month will go by, two months will go by.

4:57

You know, tomorrow is going to come and yesterday is gone.

So if you don't take the opportunity now to focus on it, I guess I'll say what do you have to lose?

You have the time.

You have some materials.

You have a shop.

5:12

You're paying for a shop.

You're paying the.

Rent.

You're paying for a shop or your garage.

You know you're paying for a mortgage.

I mean, take that moment, focus on it.

Do something with it and then just see what happens.

You know, see where the chips fall.

5:28

Maybe it explodes on you, maybe it doesn't, But this is the opportunity, you know, Seize it and use it.

There's a there's a lot of people you know believe in destiny or whatever the case may be.

But that would be a time in your life to go, hey man, this was meant to be and use this time.

5:47

I'm not going to say use effectively because you have no idea if it's going to be effective or not.

But, you know, strive for it.

Reach for it and give it a shot.

Let.

Me do a little story, Jon Schuler.

Little little story that plays into this.

So I had an idea.

All my ideas come when I'm taking a shower in the morning.

6:06

That's just the way it happens with me.

I'll be taking a shower.

I think it's the one moment during my day when there's really no distractions.

I don't have my phone, my laptop.

There's nobody talking to me and my mind can just think like clearly for a minute.

And so I had this idea of taking a shower and had this idea for a chair.

6:24

I saw it in my mind.

I saw the angles, I saw the base, I saw, I saw it all.

And I went to my shop and we were slow.

I had this employee named Christian.

Christian and I are still good friends.

And Christian was very talented at trigonometry, geometry, compound angles, complex things.

6:44

He had, he had run and owned a framing company for a lot of years before I hired him.

And so it was amazing having him working with me because I could give him something and he was just and cut it and it'd be perfect, Right?

Cool.

I had this idea.

We were slow.

I came in, I drew it up 1:00 to 1:00.

7:03

So I drew it full scale on a piece of plywood.

And I said make this out of MDF and I'm going to make a mold off of, I'm going to cast it as a chair.

He's like right, cool.

So he set to work.

He took him maybe a day, maybe two days.

By the time we bonded it and clear coat, I think 2 days to build it.

7:19

And then actually I took it to a helicopter company of all places that did fiberglass work.

And I got them to fiberglass it for me because they had the chop strand sprayers and all that kind of stuff.

And yeah, so I give them to fiberglass it for me.

And anyways I cast it.

I never, I never tested it like I didn't I couldn't sit in the MDF master mold the pattern.

7:39

I couldn't sit in it because it broke.

It was just, you know, Brad nailed and glued together.

And we knew that when they made the fiberglass mold off of it, they'd have to destroy it to get it out because it was just essentially held together with Brad nails and glues and glue.

But you know, whatever.

So never could test it.

I had the mold made.

7:56

I came and I cast concrete and then we made a jig for the base.

I welded the base and I loved it and I didn't make it for anybody.

I didn't make it for a client.

I made it for myself.

I made it to make it.

I made it because up to that point I'd really done a lot of sinks, mainly sinks, a lot of countertops.

8:11

But I'd I'd become kind of known for sinks.

And that's my main daily, you know, project.

But furniture was always interesting to me.

I always wanted to do furniture.

So this is my moment.

So I did.

The Chair and Dwell magazine has a trade show every year.

8:27

It's too expensive for me to go to.

I I've done the trade show.

I've done Dwell.

I'd paid to go to Dwell twice.

By the time you pay for the booth, you pay for what's called Drage, which is paying a union, You know, the mafia to bring your one pallet in with a forklift and they they have these rig scales.

8:45

You know, that pallet only weighs 800 lbs.

But they'll say it weighs 8000 lbs.

You're like, really, bro, I brought it my Tacoma, It weighs 8000 lbs.

I don't think so.

And they bill you by the pound, like $4.00 a pound.

You know, just some.

It's ridiculous.

I'm just saying it's bananas.

So by the time you pay for the trade show, for Drage, for marketing, for the hotel, for the time off, you're in it for 15 or 20,000.

9:08

It's all said and done and I just, I'm like I, I, I I'm not going to spend that kind of money to go to the show.

But they called and actually they didn't call.

A buddy of mine called that was going and and he said, hey, I got a call from Dwell and the space next to me.

The person just bailed.

9:24

You can have the space for like $300.00 if you want it because the trade show was the next day.

That's when it started.

I was like, yeah, bro, I'm.

Looking to fill spaces, yeah.

I mean, it'd rather have somebody in there than an empty spot in the the trade show.

So I said they offered it to him.

9:40

I said, yeah, go ahead and do it and I'll pay you back.

So, so I I built a really quick crate and I put two chairs in the back of my Tacoma in this crate and I drove to LA from Phoenix that night.

Next day, you know, set up the booth with which the booth was just my crate at because I burned my logo into the crate.

9:59

So that was the backdrop.

And then two chairs.

That was it.

I didn't have any collateral.

I didn't have I'd.

I'd form the name Hard Goods, but I hadn't made any brochures or business cards.

I didn't have anything right, but I'd I had made these two chairs, the first two I'd ever made.

I loved them when I got there, everybody else's booths were so polished.

10:17

Like Concrete Works was there.

Concrete Works is, you know, massive.

And they had this beautiful booth.

It was like, I don't know, like 1010 spaces.

They had a whole island and they had like bathtubs and backlit displays and tin salespeople and you know, and here in me with my crate, my two chairs, I just, I felt that I just felt like incredibly underprepared and just out of place.

10:42

I just, I didn't feel like I even belonged there.

So anyways, I told my girlfriend at the time, hey, will you hang out at the booth?

I'm just going to walk around.

So I'm walking around.

I'm talking to people and I come back and she's like, hey, Dwell came by and and they had a lot of questions about the chair.

10:58

And you know, I told her, I told her everything about the chair.

So I told her about the geometry and why I did what I did and why this is here and why that's there and all that stuff.

You know, the drain hole and the base design and blah, blah, blah, all the DNA that went into it.

So she told them everything, she knew how to explain it and she said they want to come back and talk to you later.

11:15

So anyways, couple hours later, like five or six people walk up there like, hey, are you Brandon?

And the guy next to me, his name is Brandon, my buddy that had called me about the booth and his company is Mod Fire.

He makes these really cool modern Chimineas, these metal Chimineas and and the year before he'd won an award for like Best outdoor accessory or something.

11:35

So they they walk up and like, hey, you're Brandon, He's like, I'm Brandon, He like walks over and they're like, no, no, not you.

They're like this guy, the concrete guy and like, yeah, yeah, that's me.

Like, hey, you won the award for best furniture.

You know, 2012 I think is what it was, best Furniture design for 2012.

11:51

I was like sweet.

So I got this, you know, this like a little award, this little trophy.

But more than that they published it.

The next issue when they do like all the the best of you know, best of best of the year.

And I was the best furniture design.

So my point with this, Jon, was I made this chair for nobody and I made it because we were slow and because I did that and because the stars aligned.

12:10

A lot of it was luck.

But because the stars aligned, this chair won best Furniture and because of that, it got a lot of exposure and it really is single handedly my most profitable and successful product I've ever made.

It's it's well over.

12:27

If I just do the math in my head, it's well over a half million dollars I've made on that chair design over the last, you know, whatever 10 years now.

So it's one of these things that had I not taken the chance, had we just been slow and I said, Christian, take the week off, I'm just going to go camping.

12:42

Let's just take some time off.

Had I done that, we hadn't explored some of the things that I'd been wanting to do.

None of that would have transpired and hard goods would have never came about and that chair design would never came about.

And so my point is, you got to take chances.

You have to do things with no money coming in.

13:00

There's no client, but those are the best.

I'm telling you right now, the best pieces you ever make are the pieces where you do it for yourself.

When you have a customer who's dictating things, you might send them a shop drawing.

You have a great idea.

They're like, well, what if we did this and they kill the design?

It's one of these things that you just have to do it for yourself if you want to have the most honest you know just what truly is you and not some client that bastardized your great idea with changing it to whatever.

13:30

Yeah, I I believe that at 100% and that I think the hardest thing, and this is me speaking for me, anybody else listening?

Maybe this is not the way you think is.

It's hard not to talk yourself out of it.

You know what I mean?

As an.

Example.

That's so easy.

13:47

Yeah.

It's just be like I'm not, you know?

Right.

It costs money.

We don't have any money coming in.

I'm not gonna spend any money on the materials or my employee or whatever.

Yeah.

And maybe you have a just use an example, Maybe you have a what you think in your head.

Or maybe something you wrote down is a really cool vessel sink, right?

14:05

And then you talk yourself out of it because maybe because of where you're at, you don't see people doing, you're not asked to do vessel sinks anymore under, you know, it's under mount sinks or top mount sinks or you're like, yeah, so you just so you just talk yourself out of it.

Nah.

You know, nobody's going to want something like that.

14:22

And you know, next thing you know, another three days, four days, five days go by and you just, you never took the time to invest in yourself.

And that's like the way we talk with training and everything else is take this opportunity and invest in yourself.

Get this off, you know, this table out of your head or, excuse me, this idea out of your head, off the table, out of the page of the book, whatever it is, bring it to life, you know, throw the dice and see where it lands.

14:53

And maybe it's something amazing, but what you can't say is even if it goes nowhere, that it didn't do you any good.

And that's the amazing thing of taking the opportunity to invest in yourself, and this would be the best time to do it. 100 percent, 100%.

15:15

So I guess next part of this for me, and this is just my my own thing is how do you come up with designs?

And we've talked about this on a previous podcast, but I I really still feel that this is great advice for anybody.

And this is my own process, but I think it's one that everybody could benefit from.

15:33

If you're really interested in coming up with the original things, the best way that I found to come up with the original thought and original ideas is to do a design A day.

That's what I call it.

And so you get like a a moleskin notebook or, you know, just go get a a plain page notebook and force yourself.

15:50

Every morning, stop at a coffee shop on your way to your shop, sit down on the patio for 1015 minutes and sketch an idea.

It can be the most ridiculous ideas, stupid ideas.

It doesn't matter.

It's the process of getting better is to just go through the process.

16:06

And so you don't want to be aiming for home runs on everyone.

Man, I need to come up with the best thing ever.

No, you don't.

You just need to come up with a product idea.

Sketch it.

You only have to make it.

But you're just, you're starting to exercise the muscle of design and your brain and innovative thought, and you're improving your ability to draw.

16:24

And so, you know, you sit down, you're like, man, concrete ashtrays.

I mean, nobody's smoking anymore.

Actually, a lot of people still smoke.

A lot of people smoke cigars.

Concrete ashtrays, man, man, nobody's making those.

Let me sketch up some ideas for that.

Next day might be concrete house numbers.

OK, great.

Next day might be a concrete lamp.

Next day might be you.

16:41

See where I'm going with this?

You just go on and on and on and on.

If you do that every single day, you make yourself do it.

It's like going to the gym.

You make yourself do it.

Repetition becomes habits, happens to become the norm.

So if you do this every day, six weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks in, it becomes a lot easier than on day one, Day five, day 10.

16:59

And your designs are getting better, your sketching's getting better.

And by the end of the year, if you do this by the end of the year, I assure you you're going to have two 3-4 really, really solid ideas.

So you never would have had how do you not gone through the exercise?

And so I've done that a few Times Now where I force myself to do it for a year.

17:16

I've done it a few times.

And I keep those notebooks.

And every now and then I flip through and I'm like, Oh my God, this was such a good idea.

And it gets me excited again because I forget too.

You know, you draw these things and then they're out of your memory.

But I flip through and I'm like, man, I need to do that.

And then when these slow times come, that's the time when you can do those things.

17:34

Well, I, like I said, I I've learned time and time again when when I mentally talk myself out of something, thinking, you know, the market's saturated.

Nobody wants this or, you know, whatever goes through your head.

I find out that someone else, let's say, took the opportunity that you didn't and focused on whatever you thought might have been a cool idea.

18:01

And here they are a few months later, killing it.

And I'm thinking what?

So yeah, I mean, that's when you got to like take the opportunity and just get it done.

And I get excited sometimes.

Get it done.

Yeah, I get excited.

I do slow down.

I reach out to people like, you know, I need somebody that can see and see.

18:17

I need somebody that can use a hot wire saw, you know, And I start trying to get it going.

And then another project comes in a door and I'm back to the grind of client work.

And then that idea falls to the wayside again.

And it's an opportunity that never, never came about.

No, that's where I'm at right now.

18:33

I mean, I'm not.

I mean between Kodiak, ICT and everything, I'm never slow.

But per this conversation and having it with many other artisans over the last few weeks, I literally put my heels in the sand.

18:52

And there are some projects that I've told myself for a while now to get, you know, to to bring forward.

And I'm legitimately doing it.

We're casting something next week and then we're going to cast something the following week.

I am going to take pictures of it.

19:08

I mean, that is a massive Achilles heels for me.

You know, even you and I always talked, oh, photography, photography.

And I'm like, oh, I agree with that, ever do it.

So this is the first time I'm not going to.

19:23

Well, in a way I'm forcing myself to, you know, quit listening to me and they say me and I'm going to get it done.

And so I'm excited about doing that and breaking some of my own bad habits and actually bringing something to fruition and and see what happens.

19:44

So we'll see. 100%.

And I saw, I said I'm still that guy that says if I can do it, if I can do it, you know, then I think everybody else can.

You know, the first thing is we got to get out of our own head.

Don't listen to the negative you you know, and and do it.

20:03

Whatever it is, do it.

That thing might be the thing that saves your company.

I'm telling you right now, I don't have a half million dollars or anywhere close to that in my banking account, and I don't live a frivolous lifestyle.

I'm not jetting off to to Europe on vacation or really even jetting off anywhere on vacation.

20:21

I don't go on vacation.

I went on one vacation last year to the beach in the minivan with the kids, and it was, it was a Griswold family vacation is what that was.

But that being said, had I not done that chair, I think about these things sometimes.

Had I not done that chair, I probably wouldn't be in Business Today because that income that it's generated has made the difference between being successful and not successful.

20:43

And so that opportunity that presented itself in that moment is what has allowed me to continue running my company.

And it's those, it's those things in life that you know that might be the difference you sitting on your hands when it gets slow and you're like I'm just going to, I want to be a turtle.

20:59

I'm just going to go in my shell and wait this storm out and wait for somebody to come along and I'll get back to it.

You might be missing opportunity that allows your your company to grow or just continue on over the years with that one product, that one product that could have made all the difference.

Correct.

Yeah.

Well, I know that's how I feel with my with my, let's call my tooling techniques, my trailing techniques.

21:21

I mean, that's how most of that came apart.

Not because we were slow.

I mean, I've told this story many times because of where I live.

I don't know.

You know, the conventional precast stuff just was not taking off.

You know, you're convinced that's when a bunch of us were getting into the whole spray based GFRC, you know, blah blah, blah, and it just was going nowhere man.

21:45

Designers were turning it down, nobody liked it.

And so we shot shut the shop down for a while and it was one of those, let's say multitude of finishes that we all meaning myself, my brother and Billy that were working together at the time.

We just completely avoided because you know what I mean?

22:03

We just didn't want to put sidewalks up.

It was our own pride, too.

We didn't want to put sidewalks, sidewalks up on top of people's countertops and then somehow walk away going, you mean?

Under cabinets.

On Creek countertops, yeah.

Cabinets, sorry.

And so, but then things got a little slow.

22:23

We were all looking at each other.

And this is no kidding.

Like, we're all talking personal stuff here.

We started talking about like, hey, we're all good at stuff.

Let's do a handyman service.

That's awesome.

Who doesn't need a handyman service?

And and they make good money.

And I mean, we were having all these conversations and I'm just like, OK, wait a minute, you guys, We really do like working with this material.

22:45

So let's focus on this for a minute.

And that's what we did.

And just like you're saying with the chair, just that alone changed my business completely on what then people were asking me.

Meaning again, the designers, the people that we work with are like, no, no, we want this.

23:05

We we want what you did at Susie's house.

Really.

We just got a huge contract with a builder with I I mean, they're not really, they're custom track homes that he's putting in.

But he came down to one of the wineries and he started telling his perceptive client, go down, this is what you wanna take a look at.

23:25

This is what you wanna see.

And some of the projects I did at this, yeah.

So now we're having meetings with all these people and they're so funny.

I met with a couple here last week and they're like, are you familiar with a large van down at Hatcher?

23:42

And I just started laughing and I'm like, well, you know, I'm familiar with it.

That's why you called me.

And then we just start laughing and.

But anyway, all of that is done.

A bright cast, yeah.

And and and the various techniques that that we show.

23:58

So I guess that's my long way of explaining.

I agree with you, man.

I took that time.

I focused on it.

I didn't get paid for it, you know, I basically paid myself.

I invested in myself and it made a massive difference over the years.

Absolutely.

24:14

And I've heard you say this a few times that, you know, you weren't slow, you're busy.

And I think a lot of people feel that that's important to be busy and that there might be something negative about being slow like that's no, I think it's, I mean.

24:30

I used to think that way, you know.

Well, I used to think.

That well you made that comment a few times saying it and it just makes me think like like a lot of people you feel that it's it's a a negative view if you're slow.

And so you need to mention that you were busy.

24:46

And I'm saying I I can tell you for a fact, I'm slow all the time and I'm busy all the time.

And there's no, there's no one between.

I'm either slammed or I'm dead.

Now I see what you're saying.

You know what?

I agree.

I agree.

I think that's a a hitch a lot of us grab onto and we shouldn't.

25:07

I mean, I think there's, if I'm going with what you're trying to explain is the reality is we do get slow.

Yeah, absolutely get.

Slow.

Nothing wrong with that.

That's normal.

That is absolutely part of this business and you shouldn't feel that because you're slow that that you're not.

25:26

Yeah, that you're doing something wrong.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's just part of it.

And and so I guess that's the point I'm trying to say or or make is when those moments come along, A, it's normal, it's to be expected.

But B, that is the the gift.

25:42

You know, it's it's the silver lining, it's the gift of time that you never have when you're busy to do the things you wanted to do.

And so you really have to capitalize on that moment and hopefully you've gone through the process of at least doing some designs, getting up to that point that you have, you know, for a rainy day and then you're like, now's the time, man, I have the moment, let me do it.

26:02

I I had a downtime.

What was it now 3-4 years where I started the the really sculptural chair, which I'm, I have it up on the shelf.

I have been waiting for a downtime to get back to it.

You know, I spent a few weeks making this really cool, maybe more like five or six weeks making this really cool sculptural concrete chair with this cast base super cool.

26:26

And I'm still super excited about it.

Like I think about it all the time when I'm driving.

I'm like, dude, I need to get that collection done cuz I have other pieces of that collection that I plan to do.

But it's always time.

You never have the time.

Yeah, well, but sometimes, in my opinion, sometimes it needs to be that way, man.

26:45

I mean like I look at now we're getting all this philosophical.

I look at the years that I spent on sealer chemistry and you know, so sometimes that time needs to pass for you know, your your ideas to really get, you know, brought into concrete.

27:09

So, so I'm just saying maybe whatever time ago when you put it together, it didn't come together the way you wanted to versus taking a six month break and coming back at it with you know from a new angle and a new perspective or at the very least a modified perspective than who you were six months ago or a year ago.

27:30

So in my opinion, sometimes that time is necessary to help solidify your thoughts or you know, bring you from a new point of view, etcetera.

I mean that that's my personal opinion.

I agree.

You know, I, I believe things happen the way they're supposed to happen.

27:47

I mean as cliche as that may sound.

True.

Well, I think we covered this topic thoroughly.

Jon, is there anything else you want to add?

No, man.

No.

I mean, other than other, you know what we just said, I do see what I said.

28:05

What I said is what I said, and that's what I'm saying.

So I had the class coming up tomorrow.

I have a fundamentals class which is going to be a lot of fun.

I'm looking forward to it and you know the fundamentals.

We cover the fundamentals.

So that's how to template, how to use tools.

28:21

So we're going to use track saw and cut melamine and then pocket screw and put it together and silicone and do all the stuff.

It's going to be a lot of fun and we're going to mix concrete, cast it, cure it, seal it.

And I'm also going to do a little coffee table.

I'm actually working on that today.

I'm going to do a little coffee table for the front office area.

28:38

I'm actually in the future I plan hopefully to have a few different seating areas here at the studio, so we'll have a few different coffee tables.

But I'm going to do this.

And so this workshop is actually going to be a little bit, just a a a tad bit of the furniture design workshop we're going to cover.

I'll go over with them how I go about designing furniture and the criteria and the process.

28:59

So they're going to get a little bit of that, which is going to be fun and we're going to cast that in the class.

A couple things that I want to tie that to #1 is I have listed 5 workshops, so actually 4 because this one starts tomorrow.

So 4 workshops for 2024 and those are on Concrete design School and those include the Hero's Quest coming up and that's going to be really fun.

29:20

That's going to be in Napa at Joe Bates shop and Sean Albright's going to come Co teach.

It's going to be me, you, Joe and Sean Albright, and that's going to be an advanced mold making class and a Ram Creek class.

So that Heroes quest, we actually have already had people sign up.

Full 3 dimensional moles and and how to create them and you know how to use rubber and.

29:40

Fiberglass and epoxy.

Etcetera, yeah.

And epoxy.

And you know, what are the steps from start to finish?

Yeah, I think that's going to be super cool.

It's.

Going to be really cool.

We've had numerous people have been to the previous Heroes quests.

We've had two of them before that are already registered to come to this one.

So it's going to be fun class.

29:56

So think about that one.

Then I have a GFRC and fabric forming class, which I haven't done one of those in a few years.

So if you're interested in fabric forming, I innovative the process.

A lot of people try to show how to do it.

30:12

They always miss the steps like a game of telephone, you know, it goes around the room.

By the time it gets to the end, it's it's totally wrong.

So if you want to learn the right way to do fabric forming, you want to learn from the person that developed the the process come to that class.

I've been teaching that class now for a long time.

30:28

I taught the first class on GFRCI, taught the first class on fabric forming.

I combine those two into this this Class 2 1/2 day fabric forming and GFRC class.

It's a fun one, so consider that one.

Then I have a furniture design workshop, which again it's been several years since I've done one of these.

So furniture design workshop.

30:43

Again, 2 1/2 days in that class it's going to be each person's going to make their own piece of furniture, which is yet to be determined.

I haven't decided what what we're going to make, whether it's seating or table or what.

It is something small, but each person's gonna make their own piece and take it home with them if they want, so that's gonna be fun Class.

31:01

And then we have another fundamentals class in the fall, So those classes are up on concrete Design School.

Take a look, see if any of those interest you.

And Jon, I want to announce that we are extending a credit for Kodiak Pro of $500.00 for the workshop attendees and that's good for first time attendees and alumni and that really brings the cost of the class down dramatically.

31:25

So if you take that $500 credit you have for materials you know off the price of the class, it is the most affordable it's ever been.

And that credit is usable through US kodiakpro.com or through Joe Bates.

So if you want to place a small order, we're going to, we're going to accept those through Joe as well.

31:46

And we're working on an East Coast distributor who will also accept that credit as well.

So we're going to make it really easy to use that $500 credit towards materials.

Yeah.

So I'm excited about that.

Well, I guess the other thing I want to tie this to is the ceiling.

So where I was going with how I tied it all together, Jon, how this little.

32:05

Little package this little you know.

Ribbon gets tied up with a bow is the Fundamentals class its ceiling.

Its ceiling is one of the things we cover in the last day, which is Sunday, which is Super Bowl Sunday, which I didn't realize when I scheduled the class like an idiot, but whatever, you know, we're using the new version of Protect which has the prime built into it.

32:25

So it's a 11 component product instead of two.

So I'm going to be demonstrating that to the class, but then we're going to be demonstrating or I I say we, I will be demonstrating this ceramic top coat that everybody's excited about.

And the ceramic top coat is from a company called Guyon, it's called Moe's like Evo, Moe's EVO.

32:44

I don't know, but you can get on Amazon.

We'll we'll post a link or at least the name and the the podcast description so you can find it.

But it's super easy to apply.

You just put it on this little microfiber applicator, you wipe it on, you let it set for a few minutes and you take a dry microfiber and you just buff it and you're done.

33:03

Simple simple simple.

Literally takes.

Yeah, I I had all these pieces that are created up now, but I did the ceramic coating on a massive fireplace, a sink, another sink.

It took me all of 10 minutes to do all the pieces, all of them 10 minutes and I was done.

33:21

So super easy to do.

And then there's another product from the same company that Martin Haddock has turned us on to, which is a sprayable maintenance product.

Again, it's a ceramic product.

It's called cure, and it's in a spray bottle and you just spray it on.

33:36

I got the mat version, which I wouldn't like.

Say it mats out the surface, but it definitely lowers the Sheen.

This doesn't make it Sheen.

Shiny.

Yeah, probably lowers the Sheen by.

About 10%.

I mean it does lower the Sheen slightly but not dramatically but I applied that as well because I want to try it to these pieces.

33:52

So I did the ceramic coating.

One day I let it cure for 24 hours.

The next day I came in and I sprayed the the cure product and then I I wiped it and took a dry microfiber and buffed it and dude it looks so good.

34:08

It looks so good.

It has this amazing even Sheen to it and it feels.

I was trying to explain it to you yesterday.

It feels like Teflon to me, like when you run your hand across the surface.

Super slick.

It's a suppleness to it.

Yeah.

It's got like a.

Very low like friction coefficient, like you can run your hand across and you can just feel how slick it is.

34:29

I feel like I could take a water bottle and just barely pushing it to slide like 20 or 30 feet across the countertop if I wanted it to.

I really like the product, but you've been doing testing with it and you've posted videos on the ICT Reactive group page on Facebook.

If you're not on that group page, definitely hop on.

34:45

There a lot of great discussions, but you want to talk about what you found.

Well, I'm.

Going to back up for a second, I I don't think we've actually come out fully, you know, come out of the closet.

So just first and foremost, what What are you talking?

About well, that.

35:01

Protect is now openly available that the Prime chemistry and the protect chemistry have been merged into a one and back into a single component chemistry.

So that's number one.

And with that what it took me over the last well, actually it was two years ago when I started it, but I finished testing for stability.

35:24

What it took to get those chemistries into a single component brought along with it a lot of chemical happy accidents, massive improvements in solvent resistance which which is allowing some of the things that we're talking about right now and symbiotic relationship with ceramic technologies and tremendous increases in acid resistances in anyway application techniques and you know again reactive abilities with the concrete itself.

35:57

So first and foremost, I just want to bring that out that hey, you know the protect formula and it's absolutely kicking butt.

So where am I going with that?

Yes, so on the ICT group page as this whole kind of, I call it symbiotic relationship, this whole ceramic and you know the updated versions of sealers are rolling out into people's hands.

36:25

We are finding some, you know, tremendous results.

So yesterday one of the things I I've been asked for a while now is, well, #1, just because I do it.

I took A and again this I'm going to back up.

36:41

As I always jump around, the things I'm going to describe are not things that I'm going to openly tell people go do it.

These are things like we just said to start this podcast.

I'm testing it myself to help either, you know, increase my confidence in the systems or at least learn the expectations of confidence in the system so that on client projects I know what to expect.

37:10

So seal the piece.

I believe it was on the 5th, and the first thing I did is half of it.

I put one application of that guy on and I did that about two hours after the final application sealer was put on again just to see right?

37:28

And if people don't know this, some of your good ceramics usually are solvent base of some sort.

And the ones that we like with the polysilazanes are definitely solvent base.

So first thing I wanted to check was what is our solvent resistance within, you know, an hour or a couple hours after an application.

37:48

OK, boom, got it.

Then I waited till the next day get trying to give the sealer itself 24 hours and then I applied it to the entire piece, meaning half of the piece got its first application and the other piece per Martin Haddock, he says he puts on two applications so the other half got a second application and again, brilliant Everything.

38:11

No, no, no issues whatsoever.

Nothing got gummy sticky, didn't change the Sheen, you know, buffed off with a cloth.

It was beautiful.

And then I gave it a day.

So you know, again putting this in perspective, the sealer at this point was about 3 days post seal.

38:30

The ceramic, both applications or the single application was right around a 24 hour time zone and that's why I'm putting this whole like caveat.

This is outside all the boundaries of any manufacturer.

38:46

Just so we know, you know, you read anything on the ceramics, they're going to tell you the same, you know, 7 to 10 days, minimum of 24 hours avoid acids.

I mean these are all the normal things for ceramics.

So the first thing I did is I, you know what the heck, I just put water.

39:03

I left water on there for six hours, actually just over six hours.

And then I posted a video like, hey, this is what I'm seeing.

It wiped off 0 mark 0 absorption 000.

OK.

And then with that, I had a really good guy that I've known for years asked me like, well, I'm going to say how about challenged me and it's probably not the way he meant his his post like it would probably how how did he word it it it could be amazing or something like that.

39:36

If instead I used lemon juice or vinegar, I'm like, OK, so yesterday per that post, I went ahead and put vinegar on.

They didn't quite hit six hours because I had to take off to do something with my son.

But I wiped it off and again showed the results live.

39:56

All I can tell is, you know, this is this is changing the game and will change the game for a lot of people.

I mean it's once again and I know people probably get tired of us.

You know, we are a group of individuals and as a company and individuals that fully embraces innovation, I fully embrace it and I look forward to advancements in what we're doing.

40:25

That puts forth and now the at least what I'm seeing, we'll see what happens, right.

I mean like anything, I guess I could melt and vanish on me.

So the next challenge was actually like could you leave a wet something with with vinegar?

40:41

I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll see what happens.

But what I'm seeing at the moment has me so incredibly impressed that we have a concrete, you know, it's a surface with a minimal sealing technology that's putting forth resistances.

41:03

I I said equal to and far and above, assuming they had been fully cured to things that we don't stand behind, which is your heavy build film forming sealers like epoxy.

I mean the fact that I put vinegar on there for six hours, you know, X hours, X days completely outside manufacturer protocols and see the kind of resistance that I'm seeing, I mean that's amazing.

41:27

And it and it only came and it's only coming about not because and I just want to make this clear to anybody, this is not the ceramic, this is not the sealer and this is not the concrete.

This is the combination of all three and the ability to take, you know, innovation and advancements in concrete chemistry, cement chemistry, pozzolanic chemistry and merge that reactive chemistry and then merge that with silicon dioxide chemistry and polyosilizanes.

41:58

I mean, it's amazing to see potentials that I'm seeing that didn't exist a year ago, you know what I mean?

So that's pretty cool.

Yeah, somebody sent me a.

Screenshot of a video that some product distributors posted and the the video shows like, I don't know, like a blue piece of concrete.

42:22

The reason a person sent me the screenshot was the concrete's just full of air.

I mean you can see it, you could you could hide A, you could hide A truck in those air holes.

I mean they're massive, right?

That's the difference.

That's really difference between US and I would say every other company in this space of decorative concrete.

42:38

And I heard somebody say say this comment on Facebook that there's nobody making products for our use.

And the interesting was a person that said that as a person that's that's relabeling A sealer that's down packing a sealer, right.

And they they're kind of I think their defense of doing that was well nobody makes products for our use and I just laugh because that's exactly what we do.

42:59

Kodak Pro is we're.

Make products.

For our use, that's exactly what we do.

We're not making it for bridges.

We're not making it for, you know, cool deck pools.

We're not making it for driveways.

We're making it for super high end ultra premium sinks, countertops, furniture, tile.

43:15

That's our market.

That's what we have developed.

These aren't repackaged, These aren't down packed, but they're also not products that were available 50 years ago.

And so I guess where I'm where I'm going with that screenshot that somebody sent me of that that blue concrete that was full of air was.

The people that are promoting our product are trying to say like this is innovation, but it's something that, you know, it's been around for 50 years.

43:37

And so you want to use this product because it's been around for 50 years.

But it's innovative and it's like, well, you can't have it both ways.

Number one, it's either innovative, which is not, or it's something that was around 50 years ago.

And you know, that also got me thinking.

I was watching TikTok as one does when you're a a man in your mid 40s and I was watching TikTok and you know my TikTok feed is pretty good.

44:01

It learns your algorithm really quick and so a lot of it's building science.

Tik toks, they pop up and you always find him interesting.

But one of them is this guy, Matt Risinger.

Risinger I think is his name and he has a show called the Build Show, like a YouTube show that he does.

44:17

But he was talking about he was looking at at a modern home, the way they'd insulated the home.

And then he was showing photos of homes built in the 50s, sixties, 70s that were essentially exactly the same.

So brand new home that one of his friends just bought was built the exact same way as they were, you know, 50-60 seventy years ago.

44:39

And he was talking about like, why we, we know so much more now than we did back then.

Why are builders still building the way they built fifty, 60-70 years ago when we have much better products, much better techniques, much better understanding and building science?

And what's happening with the building and where you should insulate and what products you should use and how you should detail it.

44:56

Why are they still doing things the way they used to?

There's no point in that.

And I I was, when I was watching that video, I was thinking about like where we are in this industry is there's people that hold on to the way it was done 50 years ago.

And they're like, you know, I'm a concrete Luddite and I do not want to do things the way it's done in the future.

45:12

I want to do it the way it's done 50 years ago.

And it's like, you know, I guess he could go that route.

I mean, there's there's definitely.

You know what though?

Sorry, I I would say, sorry, I'm interrupting you now.

Go ahead, Jon, please.

None of that would.

Bother me and it really doesn't bother me.

The only part of that that bothers me is when those same individuals have, I don't know, the audacity or whatever, when the beat of their drum is to keep putting innovation down as if it's a bad thing.

45:46

Yeah, progress.

You know, again, like, like I have something I made and I would never change it.

And then from my point of view, that's difficult because now we're back on sealer.

I listen to people.

And when people say they have a difficulty in whatever, you know a certain part of the country because of the humidity and this and that.

46:07

Well look man I'll go back to the chemistry and let's see if we can modify it and make it better for you both in your you know your humidity and at the same time you know good for somebody else in a low humidity.

So but instead some of these others like I would never change that.

46:24

Instead, if someone's having trouble, it'll constantly be blamed on user error and I don't know see I'm I'm that's a difficult for because then along that path those people will continue to condemn innovation as if it's a bad thing.

46:42

But it is what it is And you know good luck to everybody.

I you know what they do.

What I like getting is texts like I got yesterday where someone you know cast something for the first time with whatever 2430 inch verticals and writes me back these beautiful texts about, you know how he flipped these out of the mold.

47:06

I'm literally reading his text, flipped these out of the mold with zero holes.

SCC Radmix poured slowly, no vibration and just like, you know, seeing results that he's never seen before, you know, that's what keeps me inspired.

47:24

And and so if the other people don't embrace innovation or they want nothing to do with it, I'm OK with that.

I'm totally OK with that.

But just like us, we don't beat a drum that says you're doing it wrong.

You know what I mean?

47:40

No, it's not wrong to use products that were.

That were developed 50 years ago.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But what we're saying is there's better products today and if that's what you want, if you aspire to make the best you can make, we are literally designing and producing and manufacturing products specifically for this use and for this purpose we're not repackaging and we're not pulling a a polymer technology You know from from the history books we're and and to what happened in the.

48:10

Future man, we're like.

Tip of the spear, you know, Yeah, what separates.

And will continue to separate us is this as I said today we're two idiots.

We're we are again we are two idiots with at least the ability to listen and if and when people chime in we are all about building this around building the meaning the products, the sealer around all of our uses.

48:38

As an example, this goes back to the ICT forum when Patrick said, well, hey, here's a situation when people leave this on for days and weeks.

And at first I'm not going to lie, at first I was like the heck with that, man.

48:54

I got no interest in looking at that zero.

If someone can't, you know, treat their stuff with respect and you know, who am I?

But then I thought about it for a minute and I'm like, well, you know, what challenge accepted?

You know, can we is this possible?

49:11

And that's where our heads are AT.

You know, and and that's that separates us in general, you know, in a good and a bad way.

I'm sorry, I wasn't.

Listening.

What'd you say?

Yeah, right.

It might be good to us, but bad to us.

49:29

Who knows?

Yeah, yeah.

Well I it's just been a funny week on Facebook and these different comments and things and it just had me laughing because that's really what we built Kodiak on, is just innovation and making products for this use.

49:47

That also brings me something else.

I saw this pop up on Martin Haddock's page on Facebook.

His group was somebody was saying I think it was his page.

Somebody was saying that they used a self leveling bagged mix and cast a sync and wanted to let me let me pull it up because I thought it was an interesting question.

50:07

I and I want to get your take on it.

Let me see here has anybody used this product?

I got a bag from a contractor and cast a sync.

I got amazing results.

It's rapid set, true self leveling natural which is a natural finish, high performance architectural topping.

50:26

So you know it's a self leveling, Yeah, self level.

Yeah, Topping, yeah.

And it's made for doing.

Polished overlays, low polymer content.

I guess Rapid Set knows the the problem with polymers, yeah?

That does have a little bit in it though, 5000 PSI in 20. 4 hours, Yeah, a little bit.

50:44

But I guess my point is, Jon, why would somebody or is there an issue, somebody using this product to cast sinks, countertops, is it as good as or better than say Quick Crete or sack Crete?

Would this be a better option?

If if that's what you're Oh yeah, I think it'd be better than a sack.

51:00

Crete.

OK yeah.

I mean this is a a modified thin set mortar if you will, with you know, some amount of Polar.

And I was trying to think of shoot man, I was just going through my texts.

51:18

Austin Pettibone uses this quite a bit, you know, for overlays and polished overlays and that kind of stuff.

But that's really what it's designed for.

I mean, I'm not going to say a small sink wouldn't hold up, but in the longevity of it, it's going to have ultimately some shrinkage issues and some cracking issues.

51:41

I mean just the way it is and I'm not saying that is a bad thing.

It's it's not, it's just it's not designed to be something, you know, I mean 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch 3 dimensional cast kind of thing.

It's just not built for that.

Yeah, I remember back in the.

51:56

Day Dave McVeigh.

Remember that guy, Dave?

It's concrete countertop for him.

But he was a big advocate for using What was it?

It was the grout.

The Poly blend grout to cast.

Yeah, that's right.

Oh yeah, 'cause he's like, it's got polymers, it's got sand, it's got cement, it's got pigment, it's got everything you need.

52:15

It's the same as GFRC.

And I'm like, bro, it's not the same.

Do not use it.

So don't use Poly, Poly blend, grout, but yeah, rapid set self levelling, it's not horrible.

No, still use glass fiber or PVA fiber to help reinforce that I'd say, but you're not going to get.

52:33

So that's.

So again, this is a product that people are taking and and trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You're taking a product and you're trying to use it for this.

Will it work?

Yes.

Will it get hard?

Yes.

Is it the absolute best product you can use to make things like we're making?

52:49

No it won't.

Have the surface.

Density won't have the acid resistance, won't have the strength.

But dude, if I was going to cast a outdoor kitchen for, you know, for a cabin or something, probably fine for that.

Yeah, I think they they say the same.

Thing.

I mean, you know, they the guys at CTS, they're they're really cool people.

53:09

I mean I talked to a guy doing you know Joes and Golly quite often they're good people and you know they the guys that I, you know they don't blow smoke up your backside but they would tell you the same thing.

That's you know that you probably you want to do more like the Cementol product if this is the direction you wanted to go.

53:30

But even with that you know it's going to come with your your pros and cons.

Yeah, a lot of people using.

Cementol have now adopted using radmix with the cementol to get a better product to help help modify it to be more suited for our application.

53:48

Well, yeah.

We won't go down that rabbit hole again.

Remember that whole rabbit hole with people, with certain individuals who said that can't be done, but yet here they are now, you know, pumping it full of polymer.

I don't know, man.

Sorry, I just got a chuckle out of that stuff.

54:05

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

All right.

Jon, you got anything else?

No, man, That's it.

All right.

I gotta get to work.

Follow up anybody's.

Interested.

Go to the ICT group page if you're, you know, interested in some of the newest innovations with ICT and Kodiak and ceramics and different.

54:28

I mean, I've I haven't gone through, but that in itself is very interesting Now for me anyway.

Well, actually you reminded.

Me of a question I want to ask you.

So you did you tested one coated ceramic the way, Yeah, the manufacturer says actually manufacturer in a direction, so you can do one or two coats and then he tested two.

54:47

Was there any difference between the one and the two that you saw?

I didn't see any enhancement, no so, but it didn't repel.

Water more than repel.

Vinegar more It didn't.

There was really no noticeable difference between one coat versus 2 coats.

No.

OK, no.

55:02

No.

No, no, I just say that the the interesting thing that I'm seeing is this.

Normally all of these ceramic based technologies are built around car coatings, right?

And so you got to take whatever manufacturer in their video with a huge grain of salt because they're going to show you based on putting a coating.

55:26

Now with ICT you know the colloidal chemistries and everything are going to have a direct reaction with the silicon dioxide chemistries.

So inherently you're going to see very different things.

It's it's going to layout easy and then you will see, I mean very strong repellency, especially it's got the polysilazines on board, meaning the ceramic.

55:50

But when you go back to put a second application, no it doesn't.

It doesn't repel itself in any manner, and really it shouldn't because that would be the IC TS chemistry overcoming that for sure.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's.

56:06

Pretty cool, man.

I don't know.

I think it's cool.

All right, Jon.

Well, I gotta.

I'm saying I'm.

I'm responding, dude.

I can't help myself.

So while you're talking, I hopped over on to Martin's group and Ralph Coomer.

Do you have any favorite caulk gun or will any old cheap caulk gun work?

56:24

And what is your favorite set of caulk tools from old making?

And I'm responding to them while you're talking and I tell them, the dripless caulk gun, the dripless one that you get at Lowe's best one.

It's like 15 bucks, 18 bucks, black and yellow, best one.

And then popsicle sticks.

Dude, I use popsicle sticks for 15 years to tool the caulk.

56:42

They work great.

You can go down to any hobby store and you buy a box of 1000 for like 5 bucks and that's going to last you for a long time.

And popsicle sticks have a lot of benefits.

You can shape them.

Sometimes I do a radius that needed a different round over and I could shape them.

You can cut them to reach into really tight areas.

57:00

So I like popsicle sticks, but then cake decorating tools which you can buy on Amazon.

They come in a lot of different radiuses.

They're made of stainless steel.

So anyways, I'm answering him right now while we're talking, but I guess I'll, I'll or address it on the podcast, but that's my recommendation.

So anyways, while you're talking, I was typing, but also I'm looking at my my office here and there's just like dusty footprints everywhere.

57:21

So as soon as we got the phone, I got to sweep, mop, clean the bathrooms, take out the trash, blow out the shop, get it ready for the class.

So I got to get to it, Jon.

Yeah, well.

Good talking to you, as always.

Same.

All right, buddy.

Adios.

Adios.

 

 

#CraftConcrete

#SmallBusinessTips

#InnovationOpportunities

#ClientProjects

#DesignInspiration

#CeramicCoatings

#SealerProtection

#CaulkGun

#FormBuilding

#CraftsmanshipInsights