Sealed for Success: Torches, Tools, and Supporting the Concrete Community

Coming back from Thanksgiving, we're bringing the heat—literally and metaphorically. In this episode of The Concrete Podcast, we walk you through why a torch is your secret weapon for sealing success and reveal our pick for the best epoxy sealer for concrete sinks. Plus, we’re shining a light on Alicia Dietz, a fellow artisan who’s elevating the craft with her unique creations.

We’ll also introduce you to new diamond pads that will take your work from good to great—and stick around for details on how you can snag a free set compatible with Festool, Bosch, Mirka, or Dynabrade. It's all about the tools, techniques, and the people who make this community thrive. Join us for a conversation that’s as practical as it is inspiring.

Upcoming Workshops:

• RammCrete Workshop: January 11th–12th in Goddard, KS
• Basics Fundamentals Workshop: February 1st–2nd in Goddard, KS
  Register now at Concrete Design School!

HELP ALICIA DIETZ WIN A $25,000 GRANT. HOW TO VOTE:

1. Go to the WomensNet website at: CLICK HERE
2. Scroll down until you see the orange "Vote" button.
   • If the button doesn't appear, try switching to cellular service instead of WiFi.
   • Note: You can only vote once per WiFi network.
3. Click the orange "Vote" button to cast your vote (you’ll see the vote count increase once your vote is submitted).
4. Share the link with friends and family who might want to support small businesses!

#ConcreteDesign #Craftsmanship #SealingSolutions #CreativeEntrepreneurs #SmallBusinessGrowth #ArtisanTools #PodcastForMakers #ConcreteInnovation #SkillBuilding

TRANSCRIPT:

All right, Jon, you ready to do this?

I am, bring it.

All right.

I'm gonna start it.

What am I gonna say?

Start somewhere cool.

Let's start right in the middle.

Let's do one of those movies where we like, you know, start in the middle, and then we gotta have a flashback, and then come back to the future again.

Pulp Fiction, something like that?

Something like that, yeah.

Yeah, all right.

Hello, Jon Schuler.

Hello, Brandon Gore.

Well, we survived.

Survived Thanksgiving.

Did, yeah.

Yeah.

Some better than others.

I think you did better than I did.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Is this a competition?

Well, it wasn't a competition, but my kids got sick from school, like norovirus or whatever's going around, some kind of stomach bug, and it was like a symphony of puking at my house.

So one kid would start puking, and they're little, so they puke in their beds.

They didn't even get up.

They don't even make an attempt to make it to the bathroom, just like in the bed, right?

So you hear somebody start crying, you go and check.

Hey, you okay?

You touch them.

They're covered in puke, right?

Turn the lights on, puke everywhere.

All right, get them out of bed, get them in the bath, pull the sheets off, put new sheets on, and then you hear another kid crying.

Go up there, puke, right?

And this was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, back and forth, back and forth for days.

Okay, great, great, great.

And I call you, you and your wife are on a road trip for Thanksgiving, you're driving 10 hours to go see some friends.

And I tell you about it, and your wife is like, you're next, you're gonna get it.

I'm like, no, I'm not gonna get it.

I got it, I got it, my wife got it.

So yeah, this has been my last week, but I made it.

I'm here.

Right on.

But then I talked to you, you're like, oh.

Did the turkey taste better going down or coming back up?

It was good, it was good.

It was good.

We did the Traeger Spatchcocked Turkey.

So it's good, man.

Really?

Yeah, dude.

Cook a turkey.

Ninety minutes is how long it takes to cook a turkey spatchcocked.

First is like five hours if you do it traditional, but way better, way better.

Cool.

But anyways, so but then I talked to Jon, Jon's like, we had the best time.

It was great.

It was glorious, you know.

I wish everybody could have such an amazing time that we had.

Actually, it was pretty fun.

We had a great time.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you win some, you lose some, you know.

So, but anyways, I'm here.

Enough about that.

So a couple things, Jon, before we kick off this podcast, I scheduled two workshops, Rammcrete January 11th and 12th in a Basics Fundamental Class, February 1st and 2nd.

And I scheduled them last night.

I sent an email and we had four registrations for Rammcrete last night, which is tremendous.

Like boom, and I had one for the Basics last night.

So super excited.

A lot of the people registering for the class, good people, Harvest Leisure is coming to Rammcrete.

Wade Bloom is going to come.

It's going to be a great class.

I'm excited about it.

Yeah, I've been sharing some of Wade's stuff.

He's been doing some really cool, I think they're cool anyway, precast vessel sinks and stuff.

If anybody's interested, go check him out on Instagram.

Dude, Wade is awesome.

I love Wade.

So I'm so excited that he's going to make it up here.

Yeah, he's doing, I mean, he's come to Rammcrete now two or three times, I feel like.

But he's a good dude.

So Wade's going to come.

So anyways, so if you're interested in that.

Yeah, I owe him a call back.

We were on the road yesterday, Amy and I, and he was trying to get hold of me, so I got to give him a holler back, speaking of which.

Yeah, so if you're interested, go to concretedesignschool.com, Ramcrete, January 11th and 12th, what is that, five weeks from now?

And then the basics fundamental class is February 1st and 2nd, so that's whatever that is.

But they're close enough that you know that you can make it.

The problem if I schedule them six months in advance, you're like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing in six months.

So they're close enough that you know your schedule is open and it's far enough out that you can still get good airfare, good rental car rates, good hotel rates, all that kind of good stuff.

So yeah, perfect time to do it.

And we're in between holidays, we're in between whatever.

So no excuses, get out here, let's start 2025 good.

That's the other thing I want to talk about, Jon.

Hit me.

2025, I'm excited about it.

2024, we talked about it a little bit, but I haven't really shared my perspective on it.

But I'm going to tell you, man, I've been in business, this is my 25th year in business, and 2024 was the hardest year financially that I've had as a company.

In the sense of every year up till then, my sales have been very consistent, some higher, some lower, but on a baseline.

But last year was just, ugh, ugh.

I did client work, but it was a slog compared to the previous years, right?

There's a lot of reasons for it, but the economic conditions globally, not just the United States, but globally, I mean, I know people in Australia, I know people in Europe, they're having the same experiences, you know, it's a global phenomenon, but it's just been a tough year.

But I feel that things are turning and I feel that the tide has shifted.

And I'm excited about it.

I've received several calls in the last few weeks now that are getting me back energized again, people reaching out for big, exciting projects, wanting to discuss them.

So it feels like across the board things are shifting.

And so I just, you know, I think so much of the time we see on social media, you only see the shiny good side, the gold, you know, and people are like, they're not going to show you the bad side.

They're not going to show you the side where they struggle.

So you see, and maybe you hear from me and Jon, and you think like, you know, these guys just kill it all the time.

No, we struggle just like everybody else.

You have your ups and your downs.

There's good times and bad times.

But I'm going to be 100% honest, this last year has just been, for me personally, just a really tough year.

Like I said, I've talked to my friends that build custom homes and they're in the same boat.

And I talked to people that are in other trades, they're in the same boat.

It's been like that for everybody.

So I don't feel like it's unique to, you know, high-end sinks, countertops, furniture, but it's just everybody's been very hesitant to move forward with projects.

Everybody's just kind of been on pins and needles waiting.

Yeah, it could be, I think we've talked about this, could be election cycle kind of stuff, which is 100%.

Yeah.

You know, and still pandemic stuff is coming out related to vaccine information.

And I don't know, man, it's, so yeah, I'm in the same boat.

Mine wasn't, but again, I've slowed down so much in the shop.

One, two projects a month is all I've been doing.

So that stayed within reason steady.

So, maybe not two, but one.

And I'm okay with that based on balancing everything else.

So it's okay.

But I have to admit, I have talked to my brother.

And after talking to you and a bunch of other guys related to how, you know, 2024 was, I was going to start reaching out again and letting people know that Creative Crete is, you know, available again, because for so long, being a one man show, yeah, I just, I just shut it all down, meaning small stuff.

That's all I was doing is small stuff.

Now my brother is back.

He's fully retired from the National Guard.

So, you know, it'd be exciting to bring some projects back in stuff that, that we haven't been doing.

Yeah.

I mean, I stayed, I stayed busy, but I wasn't slammed.

I think what 2024 was is normally I have between six and 10 projects, probably any given time in the queue.

That's what it's been for 20 plus years, right?

There's always projects lined up nonstop.

And 2024 was one, two projects any given time, you know?

And so there was always like that uncertainty.

And I'm not complaining.

It was nice to have some downtime.

It was nice to work on the house.

It was nice to do the things I needed to do, you know, do stuff around the shop and things like that.

But it's stressful.

It's a lot less stressful when there's six projects waiting, you know?

Yeah, right?

So, you know, and we did as a family, like we didn't go on vacation this year.

We didn't go anywhere.

We, you know, we didn't take any vacations.

We didn't do anything extravagant.

We've watched the budget.

We've been careful not to spend money on things we don't need to spend money on.

And that's just, you know, that's life.

That's what it is as a small business owner.

But I'm just, I'm feeling like, and the consensus I'm hearing from people is things are shifting.

2025 is going to be a really good year for small business.

It's going to be a really good year for construction.

It's going to be a really good year for people that have been sitting on their hands, not doing things to finally be like, all right, you know, I have confidence that, you know, we can spend the money to redo our kitchen or spend the money to redo our outdoor patio and do all these concrete chairs and fire pit and things that they held off on, you know.

So I think 2025 is the year.

So anyways, I just want to talk about that because I'm on social media and I just see all the good stuff, all the good stuff.

And sometimes that can make you feel bad about yourself because you're like, man, these guys are killing it.

Look at this guy.

Killing it, killing it, killing it, killing it, killing it.

Why am I not busy?

But I think the truth is everybody struggled last year.

But I think that that clogged drain just let go and things are going to start flowing again.

So I'm excited.

Cool, man.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

So this podcast, what do you want to talk about, Jon?

What's on the docket?

Well, you know, one thing I wanted to take a moment and people can tune in.

I get a, especially since releasing Fusion last month, I've been getting a lot of, even when people call, a lot of questions.

In fact, let me go to it.

Nathan Haake was another recently, any drawback to using Fusion from start to finish.

And each time someone asks me these questions, I just come back with the same answer.

And the answer is this, can Fusion be used from start to finish?

I mean, fully seal your with Fusion and Fusion alone.

The answer is undoubtedly yes.

Then I have to backtrack and go, look, here's the realities of the situation.

I have 25 plus years of experience with colloidal silane technologies, micropolymer technologies, and et cetera.

I right now, other than since I'm at home, as you very well know right now, I'm sitting, I got my computer sitting on my table, 20 plus years old, sealed with one of the original based ICT formulas.

I mean, over all the years, you can't hurt this thing.

Any place I go around Murphy's, I go up to Joe's and we go around to various places.

So, I know what that technology has done for 20 plus years.

The pros, it's insanely durable over time, insanely.

Once it chemically transitions the concrete.

What's the con?

The con is without manipulation, meaning things like a torch, even that there's no guarantee the times.

In other words, I can't tell you it's going to be set in 24 hours, 24 days.

I've seen projects, even my own, go three or four days.

Dude, this is awesome.

And some that took six months because chemistry and the adaptation of that chemistry changes based on ambient temperatures and anyway, blah, blah, blah.

So that's the downside.

But the con or the pro is it's undeniable from comparatively speaking to any other technology out there, the durability over time is insane.

And you'll hear it time and time again, hey, I got this coffee table.

You know, why did I ever leave ICT?

Oh, my God, I did this one at my mom's house 15 years ago.

So that's undeniable.

Now, fusion.

The bones of that chemistry is undeniable.

And anybody who knows about ceramics or powder coating or any of these kinds of things, you know, there's no question about the chemistry.

But what I can't say is that I've been using it for 20 years.

You know what I mean?

Have I done plenty of pieces start to finish with fusion?

And meaning used and tested?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Did it work?

Yeah, no question about it.

No question about it.

But do I have 20 years to back on that chemistry?

No.

So what I can say is the combination, and this is what I tell people, the combination on indoor, bomb.

I mean, fantastic.

I got no question.

And then fusion exterior solely used because we can't control the weather.

We just can't.

So I'm willing to say, and again, use a coating if you want to, do whatever somebody wants to do.

But fusion, and you use it with a torch, and you use the heat to cause the catalytic conversion, and you got to be in outdoors hours later after sealing.

I got no problem with that.

And more and more people are posting those kinds of responses that they're seeing.

So anyway, there's my long winded answer.

I'll end up typing the same thing on the ICT forum page back to Nathan Hake.

But that's where I feel with it at the moment.

Yeah.

So combination using both, you're getting the benefits of both.

You're getting the benefits of long term proven durability of ICT technology.

And then you get the benefit of a kind of a topical coating that's protecting that below it so the concrete doesn't darken and things like that in the early stages.

Yep.

That's thermally all fused together, so there's no chance of delamination.

The scratch resistance wear resistance is insane.

It still maintains everything we've talked about with ICT, meaning you can use SiO2 technology, meaning the spray-based ceramics to maintain.

And now you can give something to a client that's going to last probably as long until they do another kitchen remodel.

Do you know what I mean?

It's not going to have the tendencies as the typical coatings, meaning the lack of scratch and wear, it won't peel, it won't do any of that stuff.

So, yeah, and the torch is critical, though.

That's what we were discussing earlier is back in the day, back when it was Buddy Rhodes products and then SmoothOn bought it and all that kind of stuff.

The consensus from the people that were in those organizations was, we don't want to recommend a torch.

Correct.

And so they kept pushing it away and you'd say, well, but you get better performance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we don't want to tell people to use a torch, you know.

Nobody wants to use a torch.

And it wasn't until you and I partnered up and I was like, no, let's let proven results determine what we recommend.

Yeah, do what's proven.

Yeah.

I mean, this is real world experience dictating how to use the product.

This isn't theory.

This isn't some guy sitting at his desk who's never done it saying this is how to do it, you know?

So I'd say the the caveat to this is apply it the way that Jon is recommending.

Apply it with a torch.

That's where you're going to get the good results with this.

So if you get Fusion and it's available on the Kodiak Pro website, just go to the ICT sealer, click the drop down for Sheen and Fusion is one of the options.

But use the torch per the directions.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, and that's one thing.

I mean, so I'll just say it out loud to everybody hearing it, that I've given you a massive high-five about since we've gotten to know each other even better and doing business together is historically the idea of using the torch has been demonized.

Historically.

And I'm not going to throw names out there.

Just, you know, you mentioned them.

But for whatever reason, it is what it is.

And then when people call me for tech support, well, like, hey, Jon, you know, how are you getting like?

Well, I use the torch.

Oh, I was told not to use the torch.

Well, then don't use it.

And the difference is, per what I just said, using the torch, I can turn things around and have dramatically quick sealer performance to damn near everything.

I mean, oils, acids, I mean, everything turns around very, very quickly.

But that's, let's say, manipulating the chemistry with the torch, which I've talked about on the forum, which is both the CO2 and the heat, et cetera, et cetera.

Without it, at room temperature, there's just no guarantees.

Seven to ten days, two months, I mean, I can't, that's not how chemistry works, especially at, I mean, I'm in my house now, I bet if I went over and threw an IR on the countertops, they're probably 60 degrees, right?

So it's a slow crawl for the transition chemistry to happen.

But it was always demonized to the point that, and I know we don't all like to admit this, but, and we talked about it, you want to be an alcoholic?

Hang out with alcoholics.

So this group, because this was the circle I was running in, had me convinced that it's something I just don't talk about.

So if people call me for tech support, don't talk about it, this and that, but then I'd watch people having, in my opinion, struggles they didn't have to struggle with, and then I'd say, hey, keep it on the down low, you didn't hear this from Jon.

And it was just a really weird time, man.

I got together with you, and now, no, I don't make any, there's no excuses, there's no I'm sorrys, there's no nothing.

If you want this to work, this is what you're doing, whether you're a DIY person on a knockoff project, or somebody doing this in your business, and you want the highest performance out of this stuff, and you want to turn projects quickly, and you want the ultimate in scratch resistance, stain protection, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then yeah, then you're going to use heat as part of the process, and that just is what it is, and then you make your choices, and if you don't want to use it, then you won't hear the recommendation from me.

As anybody knows, especially over the last few years, that's all I recommend now is you use the torch, you use it properly, and then you will get the performances that you should be getting.

That's true, Jon.

That's true.

Well, I got a screenshot.

There's a Concrete Village idiot that is coming out with a blended mix, and this kind of goes back to what I was just saying about people that don't do this for a living recommending to other people how to do this for a living, right?

So what I'll say is regarding this mix I got a screenshot about earlier today that somebody sent me is, if you want to hit your wagon to somebody that failed doing this as a business, then you're going to get the same results they got.

If they got dead ends doing what they did, they're going to teach you how to be at a dead end.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you call a company for tech support with a sealer, and they recommend don't use a torch, do you do this?

No.

Okay, okay.

Then you call Jon.

Jon's like, use a torch.

Well, I was told not to by Billy Bob over at this company, but Billy Bob doesn't do this.

Yeah, but he said, don't use a torch.

Okay, well then don't use a torch.

And you'll be like Billy Bob.

You won't do this for a living.

So, yes, I guess, yeah.

If you want to do things right way, I guess that's the point of this is, we let performance driven data determine how we apply products and how we use products.

It's the data and it's the real world daily use for client projects that dictates how to use the product.

It's not theory.

It's not what we want it to be.

Well, I want to do, I want to do this, but I want it to be like that.

Well, that's not the way it is.

Here's the reality of the product is this.

And if you want to use it, then this is how you use it.

And if you don't want to use it, then don't use it.

But yeah.

Yeah, as you know, we're focused on the torch right now.

It used to be a time where I didn't, I don't know how to describe it, so I keep using the word demonized.

But the reality is, much like the UV light, right?

Now we all went through that UV phase, right?

Put on the thing, use the UV.

Well, if someone at that time says, oh, apply it, and yeah, I know it says UV, but yeah, you don't have to use the light.

Well, then we all know what the answer was gonna be, regardless of where it ended up on the road anyway, everything peeling off.

But that's not how I look at it anymore.

You know, that torch and the varieties of torches used based on BTUs, et cetera, it's a tool.

It is what it is.

That's like telling somebody, ah, don't use it.

What do you mean?

You're troweling and you're using a steel trowel.

Oh, don't use that.

Oh, what am I supposed to use?

Oh, you don't use it at all.

I mean, when I'm looking back on the history of it, I feel silly, quite frankly.

I feel silly for listening to these people because I think, well, no, in my opinion, over the span of me and ICT, it probably led people down performances that they never had to be there, you know, meaning it took too long or the market, this and that, acid, and now, no, people who follow and now that I fully embrace and I'm not sorry about it anymore, I felt like I got to apologize all the time.

It's a totally, totally different animal.

Everybody's happy, they're having amazing results.

Now that you, and now, right, I'm thanking Brandon, you helped me embrace what really needs to be done if you want to be successful, and that goes across the board.

So yeah, which reminds me, I don't know if we were going to talk about this, and I know you brought up something and I'm not going to keep diving into that because the wild thing is that some people continue to fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

I mean, it was just a minute ago, they were getting village idiots back and forth, and back and forth, and like, oh my God, what?

But it's weird, man, and at the end of the day, regardless about any amount of information, misinformation, you know, people still, they'll still be part of it, so whatever.

Yeah, I mean, buy the, I'm not saying don't buy the product, I'm saying buy the product, but then understand you reap what you sow.

So if you buy that product from somebody that doesn't do this for a living, that never was successful doing it, that will point to something they did 20 years ago for a year and say, well, I did this 20 years ago for a year, but I went out of business, but let me tell you how to do what I did, which is go out of business 20 years ago, then you're going to get more of the same.

So if you want to be successful, then use the products from people that do this successfully.

Everybody associated with Kodiak Pro, we all do this for a living.

This last year for me as a company was a slow year, but I was still busy.

I still did client work.

I was still in my shop building forms, casting concrete, sealing concrete, shipping concrete to paying customers.

That's what I do.

That's what you do.

So, this is what we do.

And I've never gone out of business.

I've been in continuous business since I started my company.

So have you.

And so if you want to be successful, then buy products from people that do this successfully.

Surround yourself with those people.

Well, I'll take it a step further.

In my opinion, and again, maybe this is an unsavory point of view, support those people that are doing it.

Yeah.

Support them.

Be a part of it.

And support.

That's the reality.

I mean, say every day I'm getting things.

In fact, I need to share something.

Alicia Dietz, is a really cool thing.

Yeah, off on a whole different, now you got me on the subject.

She's doing these grants.

She was just awarded a grant, and now she's in the running for an even larger grant for her business.

That's the way I look at it.

As an artisan and what she's doing in the furniture, the concrete.

I mean, she really does some cool stuff, man.

And I'm just wondering if you're going to support people, solely my point of view, it's like I'm going to reach out and support people like that, that are doing it, that are part of it.

They're gaining experience and being part of this whole thing.

I'm just not a fan of, but again, to each his own.

To each his own, I don't rightly understand the other side of the coin.

Like, well, then why did you support them?

Didn't they mess you over?

I mean, didn't, like, I don't get it.

I don't get it.

But hey, kudos to them.

And I still wish everybody well.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Alicia Dietz, Alicia's one of our favorite people in this industry.

She's always been a great supporter.

She's awesome.

Kodiak and Concrete Design School.

And she makes really, really nice furniture pieces.

But I will, because I got this email as well.

I got it when I was homesick, and I've been meaning to vote, but I'll vote.

But I'll post the instructions of how to vote for Alicia.

So as an industry, people listening, do us a favor.

Go to kodiakpro.com, scroll down to where the podcast is, click on this episode.

And in the show notes, I will put how to vote for Alicia.

Do us a favor.

Just take one minute of your day, support a fellow Concrete Artisan, and help them win this grant.

Why not?

It takes you a minute of your life, and you're helping somebody.

So we'll put those in the show notes, and go help this person.

Well, do we want to kick this horse a little further?

You want to kick a horse?

Yeah, I want to kick this horse a little further.

You see, well, again, maybe it was on the Kodiak discussion group, ICT, I don't know, or one of the tiles.

Someone posted a video of Steve Jobs, the idea of it, his point of view was about consultants, and the same thing that you and I are talking about right now, right?

Now, regardless of what a consultant charges for their time, oftentimes, there's no experience behind that consulting.

So Steve Jobs just, he saw it very differently, right?

You be in the trenches, you gain experience.

And in fact, I think I've told this, my neighbor that works for Applied Materials, he's making like a $2 million a year salary as an engineer.

And he's the first, when we were talking, he's in charge of all these different segments of what goes on in the various engineering departments.

And he's got to the point now he doesn't even hire new people based on their degree.

Because when they come in, he's like, oh my God, they're like the biggest anchors.

They knew stuff from the books, but there's no experience.

So it's meaningless.

So now he hires people, more people today without the degrees who have been in the trenches.

And he's watched what that company can do in the various segments, accelerate like 10 to 100 fold, because everyone's, well, you know, I'm PhD this or I'm that.

I'm like, man, that means that's meaningless if you don't know what you're doing.

You're just, you know, you're an overeducated idiot.

That's all if you're not doing it.

But that being said, that was Steve Jobs.

And what I found interesting was, you could tell by some of the, again, maybe I read too deep into them, but some of the posts, like, it was asking, like, you know, what's the point of this?

What's the point of this?

And it goes back to what you and I have talked about for a very long time.

And we talk it from training.

We talk about from, you know, keeping your business solvent, trying to figure out how to balance and actually make the living and profitability, saving for the future, whatever the case may be.

But the phrase we've used is experience matters.

Yeah.

Not your degree.

I don't care what you graduated with.

I mean, I support it.

I fully support education.

There's no question about it and college degrees.

But that can't be the only basis for supposedly what you know.

You got to be in the trenches, man, of regardless.

You don't tell someone.

I mean, it does happen today.

I remember I used to hear from my mom all the time.

I think I've told my mom didn't get her GED until she was 30 years old, put herself through school, LVN, RN.

During that period of time, she became head nurse at one of the local hospital ERs.

And anyway, through her career, she could tell so many stories about, again, it's nothing against the person.

Someone who's amazing, who just graduated with their, well, let's say, bachelor's in nursing or whatever, and moved into the position, and they came in and they want to change the whole thing.

And no, this is the best way.

There's a better way of doing it.

And it never went over because like, listen, man, no, that's not going to work.

You can't do this.

I mean, anyway, that's where I see all this.

And that to me was to see Jobs, but it's interesting to see what it appeared to be.

Some people got a little defensive about Steve Jobs' point of view.

I brought this up a long time ago, years ago.

I think we're in our third year of doing a podcast, Jon.

Yeah.

But I told my history a long time ago, but I didn't graduate from high school.

I dropped out of high school my senior year, not because of grades or anything, because I had shoulder surgery, and they wanted me to repeat my senior year because of time missed.

And I said, I'm not going to do that.

And so I got my GED.

I enrolled in college, took a couple of classes, said, no, this isn't for me, and struck out on my own.

And I got a job working hotels, and then I worked my way up in hotels and became an assistant general manager.

First, I became an office manager, assistant general manager, sales manager, then director of sales.

And I was over all these people that had their master's degrees in hospitality management.

They'd gone to these elite schools, these business schools, and had these degrees.

And we would talk.

And I'm like, yeah, dude, I got my GED.

Yeah, right?

But what mattered was experience.

I worked my way up through the hotels.

And through experience is how I got the next position.

It wasn't based on a degree.

I didn't point a certificate on the wall and say I'm qualified because of that.

I was qualified.

The reason that they promoted me was because of what I had done.

So I built, you know, I worked my way up the ladder, and I built a foundation of proven results to get to the next position.

And I would excel in that position, and then another position opened up, and they'd move me into that position.

So experience matters.

It always matters.

That's the most important thing.

It doesn't matter what industry you're in, but it's more important these days.

And I would say even it was 20 some years ago when I was doing that, nearly 30 years ago now.

But experience matters.

And so if you're going to teach people how to do something, then maybe do it for a living for a good amount of time and be in the trenches and have the failures and all those kind of good things.

So you know what works and what doesn't work and the reasons why.

Let's take a look, Jon, at some questions on the forum here.

The Concrete Countertop, Concrete Sinks, Concrete Furniture and Concrete Tile Forum.

By the way, we've gotten a ton of new people joining this forum in the last few weeks.

We're up to 3.6 thousand members.

I feel like a month ago we're like at 2,000 members.

So it's just gone up a lot.

But a few questions here.

What's the best epoxy to use on a concrete sink?

To seal it, what do you recommend, Jon?

Again, I don't know.

Answer the question.

Answer the question.

What's the best epoxy to use on a concrete sink, Jon?

None.

Come on now.

All right.

Hit me with it then.

Because I'm going to say none.

Again, we're back to the old scenario.

I'm going to come out with questions first.

Obviously, it's concrete, kitchen sink, farmhouse sink, I'm guessing.

How is it processed?

How is it going to absorb?

Otherwise, I don't care what epoxy you use.

It'll be there for a minute, but it's going to scratch and it's going to fall apart and it's going to delaminate.

That doesn't mean the epoxy is a horrible product.

I'm not saying it happened.

Yeah.

No, I agree.

You know, epoxy, there's the E32K, which is epoxy in a urethane, right?

Okay.

From Richard James Chemicals, if I was going to recommend a sealer, that's probably what I'd recommend as far as that goes, that technology.

E32K from Richard James Specialty Chemicals is going to give you the best results for the most amount of time before it fails.

But yeah, the long-term issues with anything like that is they're going to delaminate, they're going to scratch, it's a nightmare scenario.

They're going to be compromised on a long enough timeline.

It's inevitable.

And once the sealer becomes, once that membrane becomes compromised, then water gets underneath and it starts to lift that off.

Another issue is just UV stability.

They all will turn yellow.

If you use epoxy, they put inhibitors, but inhibitors just means it inhibits for an amount of time.

I have a white truck.

I used to put decals on my truck, my company decals.

I always have white trucks in a short amount of time, two, three years, you go to trade it in, you peel the decals off and you can see the logo on the side of the truck.

It only took a couple years of that clear coat to yellow.

You can't see it until you remove the vinyl and then you see what the original color was before it sat in the sun for two or three years, right?

So that's the downside of those things is just longevity.

But if you are going to go that route, then that's what I'd recommend.

If you want to use something, and again, this goes back to experience, you want to use something that experience shows that has longevity, then I'd send you to a reactive sealer.

Something like ICT, but you could use other reactives.

They just don't have the same early performance or strength to performance.

There's other reactives on the market that you could use.

But something of that nature will, as Jon said, transition the concrete surface into a glass-like substrate that has longevity and doesn't have the issues of delamination, things like that.

Well, and it has repairability.

That's what I said with these other choices, right?

I mean, we're still talking to...

You're going to have your drain plugs, your garbage disposal flange.

You're going to have these things happen.

And when that epoxy or water gives way, most epoxies are about re-coating.

I mean, trying to get them off, in my opinion, nightmare.

And then you're going to be building up around all that again.

You know, it's just to me, I see that as a nightmare scenario.

So find your choice that balances both durability, ability to repair.

And so for me, my recommendation would be the protect or the satin and the initial soaking steps.

And then per what I've been doing now for the last year is then I'd switch to the fusion.

That's applied from everything beyond my really diluted steps and use that torch from start to finish.

Lock everything in and you'll have a super durable product that is repairable.

Yeah.

It's a good point, Sean.

I know it's on a sink.

I know, right?

Do you see?

And again, just if people want to go check out what I'm talking about, cause here's a weird thing too, right?

Rant mode, rant mode.

Tell me the weird thing, Jon.

I know.

I use these things.

I am fortunate enough, we've talked about it in the past, for whatever reason, I'm fortunate enough that I've made life choices that allows me to, to some degree, understand chemistries.

Okay?

I would never say that I'm the smartest, you know, I'm probably the dimmest bulb on the tree in some, in most situations, but choices I made allowed that to happen.

And I use these things.

I put them on client's pieces.

I see the turnaround.

I'm, my products are quite successful.

And sometimes I think, when people hear it from me, it's almost like an eye roll, like, oh yeah, why wouldn't he say that?

Well, because I didn't find a customer base that wants crap.

You know what I mean?

So I'm using things that helps me be successful in many ways.

And if you want to achieve that kind of success, you can certainly listen to the distributor of some product that has no idea what's in the can.

They only go by what they know.

You can certainly call the company, and maybe they do forward you long way down the road, the guy in the lab that actually made it but who's never used it.

And you can use those recommendations to the best of your ability, and good luck to you.

But this is what I do.

This is why I'm successful.

And fortunately, I have the ability to design around potential better success moving forward.

That's how I look at it.

And I'm saying that because I actually had somebody do that to me the other day.

Well, of course you're gonna say that, Jon.

What does that even mean?

Well, I get it.

I get it.

I mean, we live in a world where you don't know what to believe, you know?

You get on social media and everything's an influencer promoting some product and talking it up, but they don't know anything about it.

And so you become so, what's the right word?

Just closed off to anything like that.

And so when you say, well, I'm the chemist that developed it and this is great.

Yeah, well, you're gonna say that, you know, of course you're gonna say that.

But what I want to remind people, whether you buy our products or not, is the reason that this podcast, the information that we give you is relevant is because we do this for a living, whether it's talking about products or talking about processes or talking about sales, marketing, business, whatever, this comes from a place of doing this for over two decades.

This is the experience that makes it different.

And the cool thing for us is even right now, man, we're still learning to, again, you mentioned marketing, how to move with the trends in marketing if we want to reach that customer base.

So, anyway, I just feel like, we don't know it all, we don't.

But the cool thing about it, I think, is everybody I still talk to that's making anything from mantels to countertops to furniture, whatever, we get in great conversations about marketing.

And while I may be trying to move a new direction, instead of, no, man, never done it.

In fact, I failed doing it.

I tried to talk about it.

I failed at that too.

And so now just buy my stuff.

Just buy my stuff.

Yeah.

I need to be better.

I know what works.

I mean, here's the deal.

I feel like I could drum up a ton of business very quickly if I wanted it.

But the other problem is I'm a one man shop these days, kind of like you were saying.

You know, typically I've had at least one, if not two employees that work with me at any given time.

And so when I get an order for 20 Muskoka chairs, OK, great.

You know, like we have the manpower and we can crank through it.

But if somebody placed an order today for 20 Muskoka chairs, I would be like, oh, oh, because I'd be doing it solo and that's going to suck, right?

Like so part of me also is just kind of like, I'm paying the bills like I'm not going to stress about it, you know, like.

But that being said, I know what to do.

And I know I should be doing it.

And also I know that the perspective of the consumer is shifting this coming into this year.

And now is the right time to get on it.

Now is the right time to really focus, turn up the heat with the sales, marketing, promotion to generate business that I should be doing.

I'm with you.

Yeah, I still don't do any of it, to be honest with you.

Still word of mouth, but I mean, from the concrete side of things is still word of mouth.

So I haven't done anything.

But I said the same thing.

I'm thinking about ramping some of that up now that my brother's retired.

And you know, number one, I love working with him.

Him and I just ever since we were kids, we get along fantastically.

And so I really like having him in the shop.

He helped me on that last vanity.

And it was great, man.

It was it was great working together and, you know, being brothers again, instead of him being somewhere else.

So that's pretty cool.

So really, I think that's why I'm doing it.

So do you call your brother brother?

Are you like, hey, brother, what's up, brother?

No, his name is D.

Dude, you and I talk about how, you know, how everybody calls each other brother.

And sometimes, yeah, sometimes, sometimes I don't care.

Sometimes it bugs me if somebody I've never met before and like, hey, brother.

And I'm like, I don't know you.

Who are you?

You know?

But you legitimately can say that to your brother.

He can walk in like brother.

And he's like, brother.

And it's legit.

No, no, no.

I'd say I take full advantage of that if I were you.

I don't have a brother.

I'm going to make it something new.

What's up, brother?

You got to do it, man.

What are you talking about?

Yeah.

Who are you talking to?

You're talking to your brother, brother.

Ever since we were kids, man, well, I don't think I've, I could probably, even if someone came up with a time machine and rewound my whole life, I could probably name the times I've actually called him Darren.

Probably less than a hand.

He's always been D.

D.

D's nuts.

All right.

Next question, Jon, from Michael DeGiglio.

DeGiglio.

Best sanding disc or cup for an angle grinder to smooth out concrete.

What is the best disc or cup for an angle grinder?

Now, I sent him some follow up questions.

This is on the Facebook page of what he's trying to do.

What he's trying to do is get a super smooth concrete.

Right.

What would you recommend?

Well, I forgot the name of them, but they're not going to make it super smooth.

They're the the flat bads are phenomenal on an angle grinder.

But I mean, they they shred.

So, you know, they're like the flat cup wheel.

Yeah.

Other than that, man, I don't know what's actually going to attach well to an angle grinder.

Well, I mean, you certainly put a flexible pad on it, I guess, and then go at it with something like that.

But an angle grinder, are they even tells you how far I haven't used ones?

Are they variable speed at all?

They make variable speed.

But I think most, like, DeWalt ones are 5,000 or 5,500 RPM, I think, is the standard speed on those, which is really too high to use a resin pad.

They'll melt at that speed, they get too hot.

Yeah, and then they just coat over the diamonds and you're not going to get anything to happen.

Yeah.

So, but I have a Metabo angle grinder that is variable speed.

You can slow it down.

And so the Metabo I've used with the resin pads dry, and you can buy ones that are made to be used dry and it works fine.

So, that's what I recommended to him was get a variable speed grinder.

If you're going to do it dry, get the resin backed pads.

But also telling them, you know, because I didn't originally I didn't know what he's trying to do.

There's been times when I was doing something, let's say at my house and I wanted to smooth out a concrete threshold from one room to another room or something, you know, where they poured concrete.

I would take an angle grinder with a cup wheel, a turbo cup, which you can get those at.

Yeah, you can get those at Home Depot Lowe's and hit it with that.

And that will remove material fast.

I mean, that's like fast.

Yeah.

30 grit, you know, whatever.

It'll just shred it, but it's going to leave deep grooves.

But then I've been able to go back with 80 grit sandpaper dry, like on a six inch sander, five inch sander, 80 grit and hit it and get a reasonably smooth surface.

You know, it's going to take those scratches out pretty good.

And, you know, if you're putting a topical sealer down on the floor, it's going to cover it all up and you're going to be like, oh, that looks pretty nice, you know?

And it wasn't really any specialty equipment.

I didn't have a variable speed grinder.

I didn't have any of that kind of stuff.

But he said he's going for ultra smooth, ultra slick.

And in that case, get the resin pads, you know, 50, 100, 200, 300, all the way up to...

What's the project?

I don't know.

He didn't say what the project was, but he just said he wants it ultra smooth.

Well, then I'm going to say, I mean, again, just based on what I do with the various...

I'm telling you, and once again, everybody roll your eyes, make it quick.

Those Festool diamond pads we have, I'm telling you, man, they're insane how smooth they can make a surface.

Even if you go up to the 400s on the orbital setting on the Festool, I mean, I don't know how you get any smoother than that.

And then once sealed, oh my god, the surfaces just feel like velvet.

Dude, that was a great training.

I totally forgot about this.

We talked about this.

Diamond pads, we got new diamond pads coming in.

We haven't told anybody about them.

Do you want to talk about it?

I'll let you talk about it.

Well, you haven't even gotten them yet, right?

I just sent them out to you.

I know.

So, as many people know, because they've purchased them, we have Festool compatible diamond pads.

So these diamond pads will go on your Festool 6-inch sander, and it lines up with the whole pattern that Festool has, and you can use it with your dust extractor, go into somebody's house, use it to remove sealer, process concrete, whatever.

And it's been a lifesaver for people, because up until then, it was much more difficult to do these things.

But the feedback we got from people was, I don't have Festool, I have Bosch, I have this, I have that.

And so Jon went to work to get diamond pads for a bunch of other manufacturers' patterns, so now they're compatible.

Yeah, size and hole patterns, yeah.

I don't even know, Jon, which ones did we get?

This was something you spearheaded, what do we have?

Yeah, so based on the survey we did, so I have these ones, and I hope he's listening, because then I'll get the phone call.

I call them the Wellmans.

So they're a five inch pad.

So these already have the name.

They're not going to go by the size and the hole pattern.

So if you want some Wellmans, just let you know they're five inch, and built specifically with the hole pattern that goes to the five inch Festool, I think the Rotex one.

That's what I have.

I'm so glad we have those made, because I couldn't, I have the RO125 or whatever it is, the five inch Festool.

Yeah, so it's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, so we got that hole pattern, and then from there, yes, the Bosch became very popular.

I'm going to say it's a little more affordable option than the Festool.

So I matched the Bosch and the Mirka.

What size, five inch or six inch?

Six inch.

Six inch Bosch, six inch Mirka.

Yeah, so I think I can't remember.

I think they had 15 holes or anyway.

So I matched those up.

And so those are brilliant.

And then the Dynabrade.

Dynabrade, what size?

13, same six inch.

Six inch.

OK, so what we have now?

Five inch.

Yeah, the only actual five inch I did was the Wellmans, which is the five inch that fits the RO 125 Festool, the RO for Rotex 125.

He's already got them.

I sent some out to him and then he called me up.

These are awesome.

I said, dude, that's why they're called Wellmans.

And so we have these are being delivered.

What size or not what size, but what grit pads do each of these come in?

All right, they start from a 40 grit.

So there's a 40, 60, 120, 200 and 400.

Okay.

So that's the that's the full set, five pads.

And back to the original question about being ultra smooth.

I didn't go further than 400s because I mean, for me, geez man, those, once you get through even 200s, the surfaces are incredibly smooth.

And then I finally use the 400 on the orbital setting because you just never know, you know, if there was a scratch or anything.

So I run the that over the whole surface on the orbital setting.

And yeah, my finishes are beautiful.

So what we're going to be offering here in the next week to whatever, when I get these, you send them to me.

Once I get them photographed, get them loaded up on the website, we're going to have the six inch Festool, the five inch Festool, the six inch Dynabrade, the six inch Mirka and the six inch Bosch compatible pads, diamond pads.

Awesome.

That brings me to something else we talked about yesterday that we didn't really have a conclusion on, but we discussed it for a minute, is we don't do sales.

We don't do Black Friday sales or Cyber Monday sales or any of that stuff.

That's just, we don't do it.

We don't have the margin.

The thing is, if some companies like, we'll give you 20% off for Black Friday, then that means their margins are pretty healthy that they can afford to give 20% off.

Yeah, good for them.

If we give 20% off, we'd be upside down on these things.

So, the reason we don't do this kind of sales, we've priced it so low that we're kind of, just where it makes sense for us to be able to do this, but we don't have the margin to knock it down and sell stuff.

But what we could do, and kind of in a celebration of this, is between now and the end of the year, so you have three weeks.

If you buy two pallets of Maker Mixer Rad Mix, buy two pallets, we'll give you a free set of these diamond pads of your choosing.

Six inch Festool, five inch Festool, six inch Bosch, six inch Mirka, or six inch Dynabrade, whichever one you want, if you buy two pallets of Maker Mixer Rad Mix between now and December 31st.

Is that agreeable with you, Jon?

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Okay, well, yeah, I think the only thing missing out of at this point anyway is, again, anybody who's done this is getting into the corners.

So I do I actually did it.

I'd have to look it up what the that's again, I went with the Festool.

So I picked up the Festool that goes into the corners.

The triangular one?

Yeah, so we're going to have those are being made right now.

I just I'm going to say we just paid for the die to be made.

And so hopefully, I know they're they're literally in production.

So will we have them in the next few weeks or pre Christmas?

I don't think so.

But if we do, that's great.

And maybe we'll add that in for people.

But most likely, I think those will be here by probably just after the first of the year, would be my guess.

Cool.

Yeah, well, that's a good problem to solve because that's, you know, a round pad.

There's those in that little section in a corner that you can't get to.

Oh, my God.

Or in a sink.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, I've been there a million times, and then I have to do it all with a hand pad getting into those little corners.

And it's, yeah, I mean, you know, you do what you got to do, but it'd be nice to have some real pads that are extremely durable to be able to achieve that.

And same thing, with the proper hole pattern in the backers of the vacuum, you know, sitting around a crap load of dust.

And yeah, it's pretty cool.

I'm excited.

I've always paid a little person that has like little hands, and I pay them to sit in the sink and just...

Just a little tiny pad.

A little tiny pad, with their little tiny hands, and they get in the corner there, and I just, I pay them hourly, you know, that's just what I've done.

But these pads will save me from having to spend that money.

So, good job on that, Jon.

No, I'm excited about them.

I'm excited.

I think anybody who's used them, the feedback continues to be stellar in the performance with the modifications that were made over the first people that bought the first pads.

And there you go.

I'm going to say the same thing.

We talked, I know this.

These are built around the experience.

Experience, people's feedback got back to us, made modification and resins, diamond size.

It's been quite a journey.

I learned more about diamonds and diamond pads over the last, how long we've had them?

A year, year and a half?

Then I never thought I would do.

But I'm using them all the time, so I really like them.

See, I'm excited because I haven't been able to use them because I have the 5-inch Festool.

So, you know, I remember when we first had these made, he sent them to me so I could photograph them.

And I was all excited about it and I went to go put it on my Festool and I'm like, son of a bitch, I got the 5-inch.

Yeah.

Well, see, I'm going to tell you a recent thing that just happened that made me, I don't know, let's just step back and say thank you.

And so I just stood in front of the mirror.

Thank you, Jon.

Thank you.

So that last vanity I just made, I don't do a whole lot of looks anymore that need slurry.

Right?

So this one did.

And it had a lot of pretty good size voids and packing them in the whole nine yards.

So we went back to that whole glazing a donut, right?

Like putting the icing over the cake kind of thing.

And I'm going to tell you, what prior to what the hell are you talking about glazing a donut?

Well, right?

You like when you're when you're slurring something, you put it on heavy.

The slurry goes on heavy and you put it heavy enough so that, you know, there's a pretty decent residue left on the surface.

And then you have to come back and process all that off.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Either take it back out to diamond polishing of some sort or like in this case.

Oh, my God, just turn in on the vacuum and, you know, running 120 grit over that whole surface, removing all the extra slurry and then having the entire thing butter smooth after that.

Oh, my God, man.

It was just a step.

Because I hate what processing anyway, it was a step that made the whole processing steps of getting this vanity done so much quicker.

I didn't have to wait for it to dry.

Basically, we sanded down, cleaned up, boom, and went right into sealing within minutes after removing the excess slurry.

It was awesome.

I'm just saying, me personally, anybody who's not utilizing this or at least trying to utilize these, I would say think about it and get them into your processes.

I think the same thing, you'll cut some of your wet processing down and just make everything you're doing go a little bit quicker and right quicker just means help your profitability.

Yep.

That's right, Jon.

Well, I got to get to work.

I got some stuff to do.

All right, buddy.

All right.

Well, let's do it again next week.

You got it.

Enjoy the rest of your day, my friend.

Adios, amigo.

Adios.